Chai Football
Chai Football is a weekly podcast hosted by well know Sony ESPN and Ten Sports TV Anchor Joe Morrison alongside sports business journalist, Shruthi Nair and outspoken owner of Delhi FC and the Minerva Football ‘factory’, Ranjit Bajaj.
A no holds barred look at what’s going on in the World of Indian Football along with regular invited guests from both the football landscape as well as famous fans of football from the sub-continent and beyond.
Chai Football
The Inside Story of How Afghanistan Beat India
Captain of the Afghanistan Football Team Zohib Islam Amiri shares incredible insights into how they beat India. The high risk flights strategy, Ashley Westwood meeting the Taliban, celebrations in Kabul and how a flight was made to wait for a National Hero
Need a venue. How about Warehouse 4? If you're hosting workshops, corporate events, training sessions or maybe a wrestle fest no, I'm serious then Warehouse 4 is the place. All you've got to do is go to all the Ws. Warehouse 4, that's the word for F-O-U-Rcom. I've got a quick favour to ask from you. There is one simple way that you can support our show, and that is by hitting that follow or subscribe button. Do it on this app that you're listening to the show on right now. It makes a huge difference to us in helping to get the show out there to as many of you as possible, so please give us a hand. Click that button now for me. Thank you, I'm Joe Morrison.
Speaker 3:The bloody Britisha.
Speaker 1:So who are you?
Speaker 3:Just plain simple Shruti.
Speaker 1:The bloody Indian, late, late.
Speaker 3:That's not late, that's just Indian Standard Time IST.
Speaker 1:And I have 25 years of live football television experience. What do you have?
Speaker 3:And I have been on this planet for 25 years, you sure. Okay, maybe a little more than that, but let's not talk about that.
Speaker 1:And this is Chai Football.
Speaker 3:And on this episode.
Speaker 2:Of course, in the team, few boys are there that they can play for the country and they play for the coach, but not all of them and he is the one that every single one in the team play for him. We were fresh when we reached Guati. When we reached, we entered the hotel. They were dead. You can see from the face they were dead. I think you're good long you're gonna be here. It's like, oh, I come for a wedding, but I might go in like in 20 days, like before the india game. We somehow we managed to build a team team. It's not the team that we had before, but it built this team welcome to chai football.
Speaker 3:And today we have joe Joe Morrison in the studios, finally after two months, and we also have Zohib Ismail Amiri, who you might know from the Afghanistan football team Mumbai.
Speaker 1:Dempo Goa, kerala, chennai, kashmir and Mohan Bagan.
Speaker 3:Oh, Mohan Bagan as well.
Speaker 1:And what? Sorry Shivajan. So that's, is that right? Eight, eight, I think yeah.
Speaker 2:Is it eight clubs?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Eight clubs you've played for.
Speaker 2:Eight clubs 11 years Eight clubs in 11 years.
Speaker 1:11 years, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:Wow, long, long journey. But you know what, honestly with you, I'd like to start like right from the beginning, like I think your story itself, what's out there, is just so intriguing. So let's start from the beginning, from the top, which is your childhood. Walk us through it. We've got a lot of time. It's a podcast.
Speaker 2:It was to be honest. Like you know, my country is so difficult for my country, for Afghanistan, especially as a kid, to grow up and just come and play in top, top level, you know, especially play against so many top players. I never dream of that, to be honest.
Speaker 3:So you were born.
Speaker 2:Be honest, I'm born in Afghanistan and in Kabul, yeah right, and then we become refugee in Pakistan, right?
Speaker 3:I think it was like 96 so you're still young, very young, very young, I think I was like six or seven, okay.
Speaker 1:I just want for those who are watching. Uh, blow a few myths apart. So, for example, football. Is it the number one sport in afghanistan? Yes, bigger than cricket, bigger than kiki. I want to go, that's for sure. And was it easy to play as a child football, like, say, on the street, in school? Was it easy to play football? Or was it because you hear all of these stories about things that are banned in Afghanistan or you can't do in Afghanistan? Was football easy to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that was the only sports, that was the only I can say way of bringing people together. And as a father, I remember, I think, when the first time I went to the stadium, like it was fully packed and people was just how many?
Speaker 1:how many would be there approximately?
Speaker 2:oh 10,000, 20,000, no more than that, more than that I had, I had I don't know. I'm gonna give you guys one picture. I think I have a picture that people was just sitting next to the line sitting on the stand.
Speaker 3:Anywhere there was space.
Speaker 2:Anywhere, even on the line.
Speaker 3:Next to the pitch.
Speaker 2:Next to the pitch, not one line, more than five, six lines, just everybody sitting that you can watch. The first time I've been with my father, I was like wow, I was like this is the set, this is the only thing, and the game was starting 4 o'clock and people was already from 11 or 12 o'clock in the afternoon oh wow, it's like a concert.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have to go.
Speaker 2:You have to always go early to get a good seat, you know yeah, otherwise quite literally pit side yeah that is the only sports and that was the only thing that I remember that Afghanistan people was just cheering and people was actually watching.
Speaker 1:We didn't have TV. You didn't have TV? No, we didn't have TV, so you couldn't watch international football like Premier. League or did you watch the World Cup?
Speaker 2:the first game I watched ever was 1998 Brazil against France in the World. Cup, zizou scored two goals. Wow, that was the first time I watched where did you watch it in?
Speaker 3:Afghanistan, the first time so like that's the first like televised game, you watched, and that's why did one person or one family have a TV and everyone went to their house yeah, we
Speaker 2:had we had the TV and everybody had to their houses. Yeah, we had the TV and everybody had to come there and watch. Yeah, it was crazy. You were the most popular family in the neighbourhood because you had the TV, I think yes, because my father, we had the biggest radio, we had the biggest TV, but not colour TV. It's, like you know, black and white you have to watch that.
Speaker 2:Who is Brazil and who is France? Yeah, exactly, but it was nice, it was a good experience. Childhood, I think I never had even thought of to be professional, to be honest.
Speaker 3:So when did you start playing then?
Speaker 2:From like I don't know. I was like six or seven years old. I just started on the street just kicking, not a ball, we used to make a ball with all this clothes and all that stuff like rags, yeah, and then you can just, you know, kick it.
Speaker 2:And the first time we had a ball I don't know, I don't remember like a guy we bought with the ball and whenever he starts we can just play with him. Whenever he finished, the game is over. So you take the ball the first time proper ball and you were like, wow, this is different. So he takes the ball and he goes and finish the first time proper ball and you were like, wow, this is different so he was always on the winning team because if he was on the losing team, he fucked off yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The first time I started playing it was, I don't know, it was six, seven years old, but it was nice, it was good experience.
Speaker 1:But when I moved to, so there was sorry, there was no professional footballers that were Afghani at that time that you were a kid, no, I think we didn't even have a national team that time.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, we had only in Afghanistan, kabul the league that you have to play together, and then the the other province team. Once a year they come together and play, and that time, when they're coming from other cities, it was like a walker for us. You cannot get ticket to the stadium. That's why I said you have to go super early to get tickets to watch the game, because from one city, then Kabul, it was all competition.
Speaker 1:Who are the big teams? Who would be the Manchester United and Liverpool of Afghanistan?
Speaker 2:You know, the first time when I realised it, the first time when I remembered that when I came to Afghanistan, back from Pakistan, and that time it was, we used to play city against city. It was not in Afghanistan, okay, in Kabul we had a few teams, but what they were doing they were making a joint team. You know, a superstar team so yeah, from kabul.
Speaker 2:So they had, I think, maybe 10 or 15 teams. They take all this good superstar, all the start team, and they're making kabul a and kabul b and then they have to compete with other cities, like from Kandahar, from Iraq, from other cities but it was not professional though not professional. Not professional did you get anything?
Speaker 1:did you get expenses or boots?
Speaker 2:no, nothing no, nothing, nothing, nothing like when when I like, I like I don't know before that how it was working, but when I come to to this, you know the how it was working. But when I come to to this, you know the setup. I can say, in afghanistan, for the first time, when I seen I got selected to the kabul b, you know it was crazy. People was like talking about and it was like not even national team, because our national team I don't know if you know the story.
Speaker 1:On 2003 they ran story.
Speaker 2:This is funny. So what happened is like, I think, after the Taliban, so this was the first regime of Taliban when they before 2004 yes, when they gone. I think they had this. This trip to Italy, they had a game.
Speaker 1:I don't know the team, the national team?
Speaker 2:not national team, national team, because I don't remember I was so young but the boys that would run away, they were. They say like we were in the national team and they become my teammates later on and they play for one year and then they that's it. They were telling us their stories. They say like we had this trip and then they said I don't know who decided he's the head coach and he come everybody's home. You know knocking like yeah, you want to go to trip this so I'm trying to get my head around this.
Speaker 1:So this was obviously after the invasion in 2001, a couple years later yeah, 2003, sorry 2003? Yes, so a couple years after the initial american invasion. Um, and basically what you're saying is they put together just a bunch of players.
Speaker 2:The bunch of players that they used to play during the Taliban Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they had played football, exactly Right, but they weren't the official national team. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:And they're on a tour, a football tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, but it wasn't an official football tour.
Speaker 2:No, no, like. So they have this, I don't know, like, I think for some charity game or something. Yeah, because I don't have a lot of information, but yeah, the way he was telling me this like a united nations game or something, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:So they went to it to italy. And they say like we reach around, like in in the afternoon, and the boys is so funny, he was in the team, the guy, and now he's in us. So he was, he was telling me that. So we, the old team, once we reach in in the hotel, everybody was, you know, just playing around and they say like let's go to the beach. And they were exactly staying in the beach. And they say, all of us, we went to downstairs, so we're sitting in the beach. And they say, like I think you're not going to go back.
Speaker 3:So just stay back in the country.
Speaker 2:No, and they said that the next the tickets are already sold. I think already 10,000 tickets For the game itself. For the game, yeah, exactly. And this guy said one guy is standing like I'm going, I don't care if you guys are going to come, you come, if not, I'm going. So they didn't play the game. No, nothing, one day before the game they're gone. There's a two sitting in the, in the car gone somewhere in Germany, two of them, and in you know, and in tube they'll go to I don't know so they just got an all expense paid tourism trip.
Speaker 3:Technically, yeah, that was the first trip that was the first trip for them.
Speaker 2:I think. I don't know, I don't even ask them.
Speaker 1:Americans? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know, and they said that's it done. Gone. The next day they had a trip, they had a game, they had to go there, and then they're trying to gather a lot of boys, you know, because yeah, the match has got to go ahead exactly.
Speaker 2:And they say, like all this Afghan refugee, the one who is staying there, they say we have to call them. You've played football, yes, you come, you play football. And they say, like a defender was a tall defender, he's in Canada now. He say, like I was tall because the goalkeeper ran away, so he doesn't have a goalkeeper.
Speaker 2:I had to send the goal, but I had to ask which team was playing there against I don't know, and they said, like first 20 minutes they were not even shooting. You know, they were just, you know, crossing. They were scared of this guy, I thought the good goalkeeper.
Speaker 3:And then after after 20 minutes, like everywhere, you know what this has actually happened with the Indian team as well. Many years back it was for one of the the German Olympics. I think it was Many years back.
Speaker 1:I can't remember what the game was 1936 Olympics, the Nazi Olympics, was it the?
Speaker 3:Nazi Olympics? Yeah, but a bunch of Indian players. I can't remember what sport it was about 23 people. They went to Germany for the Olympics and then the next morning, when the game was actually going to happen, the team go looking for these guys and the room is empty, empty. Everybody is missing. So what they did was they wanted to go to germany and live there as you know, immigrants yeah and then that's how they got there, and now nobody can find them.
Speaker 3:No one knows where they are. They probably settled down in germany and europe and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So this, this, yeah, it sounds like a scheme, right like no, no, a scheme like I don't know, like you say, like Things were desperate at that time. No, for so many years it was not Chaos, yeah, it was not a place to live and all this stuff. And then suddenly they decided that, okay, I think this is the biggest opportunity Europe. Every place is closed. Why not?
Speaker 1:If you played at that time and you did play at that time in in afghanistan were you famous? Were you like a celebrity? If you were a player who played in one of those leagues that you're talking about kabul a club, sorry, kabul a, kabul b were you did did people recognize you on the street?
Speaker 2:of course, all of them, even like as a young, when I used to go to to watch the game before we moved refugee for a few years and back come back. I. I always like remember that names. You know that, that guys, that, oh, you play this guy in this team, you playing this, this guy in this team.
Speaker 3:You know, we all remember that so sorry, before you went to pakistan, then you were still like playing and you know, on the street I was not playing professionally how was that situation though?
Speaker 3:because this is the, the taliban era, right like before you got your first president and all of that. Uh, sorry to be a little political here, but like, how was it like living in that sort of era where you, you clearly had a passion for football, the country obviously really had that passion for football, but what was the the whole feel like living there?
Speaker 2:You know, like the first regime, the second after that, like a lot of regime, changed it, but football was always the same. It never changed that passion that people was always supporting, the government was always supporting. So that, as I said, like that was the only reason, you know, people leave, people enjoy, people celebrate One win, everybody's in the street, so that is the only thing. That's why, like when you ask me about cricket, cricket is like last, I don't know a few years, but football is always from oh, you're gonna offend a lot of people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no, that's, that's true that's true, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1:football always you I suppose the thing is, it doesn't matter whether you're from Afghanistan, any country in the world. If you are a famous footballer that plays for the national team, that's captain for the national team. It doesn't matter whether you're an American, you're a Republican or Democrat. If you're in England, whether you're Labour or Conservative, whether it's Taliban or what was the other group, northern Alliance or whoever the other group were, you have this special status. Yes, yes, that both sides respect you Exactly.
Speaker 2:You're a famous sports person.
Speaker 1:You're a famous footballer of the national sport. Exactly so, I suppose it doesn't matter if it was the previous regime or the next regime. They both love you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, doesn't matter if it was the previous regime or the next regime, they both love you. In that context, did you ever sort of get these approaches from the government or Taliban, if I may ask, who might have been sort of, you know, like fans of football and wanted to see football progress and stuff? Have you had those encounters?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. We're going to come on to it in a second.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we will when we talk about.
Speaker 3:What is that story? What is the suspense? No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:We will come on to it about the Indian game this year when they played India. Afghanistan beat India, but did you play professional in Pakistan?
Speaker 2:No, so what happened is like for the Like. I was playing there in one academy called Akkahan.
Speaker 2:Like I was very young, like my brother. Both brother was playing there and that was not a professional. No, they were not professional. Even now they don't know. No, they don't play. Uh, they were just playing. You know, like time pass.
Speaker 2:But for the first time when I come to afghanistan, it was my, my cousin's wedding, and my, my cousin one of them. He was playing in one of this lower league of afghanistan. You, this club called Shoa. I said, can I come with you in training? He's like, yeah, come. So I was young, but I was good, you know. So when they see me there, they say like, oh, I think you're good, how long are you going to be here? It's like, oh, I come for a wedding, but I might go in like in 20 days. They, we have game, this professional Kabul league is starting. So if you want to play two, three game and after that if you want to go back, you can go. I said like, yeah, why not? So I play for the first time with this club, shoa, this professional Kabul league. You know it was like first time.
Speaker 1:I just come in the stadium.
Speaker 2:Is this the professional?
Speaker 1:league that was set up by the US State Department.
Speaker 2:No that was later on. Later on, before it was just in Kabul, they had, like I think, 12 team or 15 teams not paying. They're paying, they're taking money from the boys.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no money like no money.
Speaker 2:It's like no money that the club just pay, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even the boys was playing. Everybody have to pay fees. You know Like an even the boys was playing. Everybody have to pay fees.
Speaker 1:You know like an academy you go to academies like this, but so this was before the US professional league exactly just to interrupt you there, sorry Amiri. I think it's worth pointing out to those who are watching that, as part of this rebuilding of Afghanistan, that the US were involved in, and the allies of course. They created a League in Kabul, wasn't it? Yeah so it was like taking this on, and they had, I think, television deals.
Speaker 2:Broadcasted on TV that come later on. That was later later on, to be honest, in 2005. It was this kind of teams, this kind of professional teams, that all was competitive kind of teams. This kind of professional teams that all was competitive. The stadium was full, people was all chatting and all that stuff. It was nice feeling to go and play, no money, but it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1:What was the average crowd then?
Speaker 2:I think the stadium was full. So I can say that the stadium like 25,000 that. But you know, when you see it all. I think it's more than like 60,000 that, but you know when you see it all like 17,. It's more than like 60,000. More than that I will show you. Maybe you put in your podcast that pictures like people is. You know they have this, you know big places that you have to just put something. You know people is just God on that and just sitting there it's like crazy, unbelievable for me.
Speaker 1:Were these the stadiums that, famously, people talked about executions taking place? Yeah, that was the one. Did you see anything like that? Did you see anything in those things?
Speaker 2:No, I was too young. I was too young. No, I didn't see anything. But yeah, when this was happening, then a few clubs, they come up with some money, the competition come up, and then I remember that, kabul being one of the richest bank in afghanistan they come up with this idea that you want to buy all these superstars from other teams but sorry, just to clarify, you were just visiting for your cousin's wedding, so you were planning on going back to pakistan, but you didn't, you just stayed back because of this opportunity yeah, wow, sorry.
Speaker 1:So then, to go from there to india, did you have an agent?
Speaker 2:no, nothing. So I'll tell you. This is a funny story all your stories are funny.
Speaker 1:By the way, I've known amiri for years and every time we sit down I'm constantly going you. You know what? I need another two hours. The stories are brilliant. Sorry, carry on.
Speaker 2:So 2005, when I say like 100 boys come up together. They selected a national team and the national team is supposed to go to Germany for just trip and then come back and we played first SAF championship in Pakistan, karachi, on 2005. So I got selected on that 25. Saf by the wayachi in 2005. So I got selected on that 25.
Speaker 1:SAF, by the way, south Asian Football Federation, and for me, and for my family it was one of the biggest moment.
Speaker 2:You know, like none of my family member was even expected to play for the national team. I remember all of them was like sitting in front of TV, it was like four o'clock in the evening and they're announcing all the boys. You know, at that time it was, and everybody was like, oh, and then my name come up. So it was a dream come true, yeah. And then, and imagine, like for me I was in Karachi. I grew up like people know a lot of people was there still in Karachi, and to go and play for Afghanistan national team in Karachi for me it was a big thing, you know.
Speaker 1:Did you ever get offered citizenship to play for another country? No, nowadays it happens a lot.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. But because like I always wanted to play for Afghanistan, even like if somebody was asking me also to do it, no chance, yeah, yeah. Then when I go to Pakistan.
Speaker 1:Respect, by the way, respect A lot of people would have gone. You know what? I can go and play for England, or you know another country.
Speaker 2:Like if you ask me, like opportunity, like if that's why I say, like if it's going to come, also like no chance for me, because always, like you know, my family, family, everybody is Afghanistan and I love Afghanistan. You know that. And when I went to Pakistan and I seen that feeling and all that stuff, so I said I'm not gonna stay one more day in Pakistan, so that is the time. Then I move back which year was that?
Speaker 1:2005 2005, you moved back, I was 15, and then I move alone back yeah alone back, yeah so how did you get your first gig in India, your first club in India, which was, which was Mumbai MC?
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, so this club come up, kabul being one of the reaches. They're paying every single one so much money. They bought all this good players from different clubs. You know, in Afghanistan a couple like our bench was more, you know like, famous and expensive than the first level it was. They bought every single one Kabul bank. And then Kabul bank was this kind of thing, you know, for marketing you have to take the team always somewhere some city and that time we win the championship and they say like okay, where are you guys gonna go, you know?
Speaker 2:they said like oh, maybe we have some marketing strategy. We go to Mumbai. So okay, let's go. So they take the team. We go to Mumbai, we stand Jew Novotel. I still remember.
Speaker 1:Jew.
Speaker 2:Novotel. Yes, I remember. Yes, we were staying there and we used to go to Colaba, to Coprish, to play against teams or train and you know the Cup Bridge. Well, yeah, so we play against Mumbai CTFC or Mumbai, and then we play against Air India and then we play against some army club I don't remember, and that time, like I was young, energetic, I play, and that's why they see me few of them and they exchange we exchange number and then I go back to Afghanistan, but and the exchange my we exchange number, and then I go back to afghanistan, but after that, like the next week, they send me a message that if you want to come, we can, we can talk. It's like okay, no, no, no problem, I can come. I went to air india first, before mumbai. Oh, really, air india was the one that wanted to sign me, but the amount, the money that they offer me, and then when I went to see the pitch and all that stuff, I didn't like it, to be honest.
Speaker 1:So the pitches in Afghanistan were better than the.
Speaker 2:Exactly In Afghanistan, I was getting more money than here.
Speaker 1:So, come on, you got to tell us Don't tell us about anything else, I'm not going to ask you about your salary for the rest of your career but what were you getting paid by Kabul Bank at that time? So no, I'll tell you. What was the average, not necessarily yours what was the average salary that you and those superstar boys were getting from Kabul Bank?
Speaker 2:Three, three In dollars. Oh, I can say, okay, so $500 a week $500 a week, which must be big, big money. That time it was crazy money. That time it was crazy money for us $500. That's why, when I got an offer from Air India and then Mumbai FC, the Cowell Bank owner is like.
Speaker 3:That seemed much better. He's like you're crazy.
Speaker 2:You know I'm giving you more than that. Okay, this is your salary, but I'm giving you again so much money. You know, every time we win the game, like okay, take this $500,. You know, every time we win the game, like, okay, take this $500, you know, happy and all this guy was rich, this guy. But I said no, I think for me, my desire is always to take new challenges and do something good.
Speaker 1:So you took a drop in salary to go play in India.
Speaker 2:A lot, a lot a lot and I was the first professional football player from Afghanistan ever to to go outside and play.
Speaker 3:I was the first one, yeah and then from that time it started so, in terms of the quality of football, did you think Afghanistan was better then?
Speaker 2:if you ask me.
Speaker 1:At that time.
Speaker 2:At that time, the treatment and the environment and the facility and everything was like much better than Mumbai, really Only Mumbai, I think.
Speaker 3:Was it only because of Kabul Bank, this rich man, that happened to?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:How was the condition like with the other teams, for example?
Speaker 2:The other team was like bad, yeah, but Kabul Bank, they had this big, big house and all the boys were staying there. Good jersey, they had this a big, big house and all the boys was staying there good, good, good jersey we had to get, like good money and the food was unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Good life, yeah, good life. It's like we were used to call, like okay, I think this is professional, proper professional. That time it started the money come up in afghanistan, because before that nobody was talking about money. If there were boys, go and ask the president like, oh, he gave me money, like money? Which money? Yeah, no money, you know. But when kabul bank came, they bring this. You know that you have to pay money.
Speaker 3:You have to pay money to these boys so how many years did you live in india? In total, at a stretch 11 total 11 years in india alone yeah, oh, and you never went back to Afghanistan during that period like when the league was over, just go for a month and then come back again. Right, because for me, as I say always like, india is my second home out of all the 8 clubs you've played, in which one was your favourite in terms of experience?
Speaker 2:Dempo and FC Goa, because both are the same, so Dempo.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Dempo for me.
Speaker 1:Because of the place, because of the football.
Speaker 2:Because of everything. Professionalism.
Speaker 1:Lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Lifestyle, training ground, salary-wise. Like never, ever, ever delay for one minute. You know, we know that. Okay, if today is first he's going to come.
Speaker 1:That's saying something by the way, Payments being no, I'm being serious Payments being on time has been one of the biggest diseases and I would call it a disease in Indian football.
Speaker 1:Paying players on time. I've experienced over the years. Players have been on the phone to me crying because it's into the last last, say, two or three months of the season and they've picked up a serious injury, but they do not want to tell the management because they know if the management says, okay, serious injury, you're going to be out for six months. Why do we need to pay your salary for the last three months?
Speaker 2:exactly that kind of bullshit exactly is.
Speaker 1:It happens a lot and has happened a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. That's why, like when I went to Denpun, I was shocked because that was my second club, because what I experienced in Mumbai, it was terrible for me. Yeah, like I come on, like I think in a time that I was getting good money in Kabul Bank, everything was good, and I come there to just take a picket and just trust people that they talk, and that time Khalid Jamil was in the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And first year I stayed with them the way they were talking and all that stuff, but the second year I should have not signed it, because that time Bangalore came up.
Speaker 1:That must have been the year they launched. Was it Bangalore?
Speaker 2:come up and I had an offer from Bangalore came up. That must have been the year they launched, was it? Bangalore come up and I had an offer from Bangalore, and then I had an offer from a lot of other clubs. But then Khalid Jamil was talking about all this stuff. Still, I wanted to say, because it's Mumbai, you know, but okay, my salary grew and all that stuff, but I didn't even see outside, like when I go for the first time to dimple and I actually see no I think this is a proper professionalism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a club, that's.
Speaker 1:Everybody was talking I think it's worth letting people know. Bengaluru changed professionalism in indian football at that time. This was before the super league, wasn't it? Yeah, so when bengaluru first started BFC, they were I-League club, but they came in under coach Ashley Westwood and Mandar Tamami. They came in and just changed the levels of professionalism in Indian football. Exactly, and there's a connection here. The reason I'm mentioning this is because of Ashley Westwood in particular. There's a connection here which is going to come around full circle, which we'll get on to in a minute.
Speaker 3:It's coming does this have to do with the infamous match for?
Speaker 1:the one that makes you sad.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we did discuss that at length, didn't we? Are we there yet? Sorry? Go on so you're talking about tempo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I went for the first time, that time papas was a coach but the president such a good guy. You know like, when I went to the clubhouse and went to training ground, the facility, the, the, the place where they gave to every foreign player like a big house for everybody, you know, like, like I had it like the biggest house on that place, you know. But I'm coming a salary, because the salary was always on time. This was such a good one and the pitch was unbelievable, the training ground and everything was so good.
Speaker 3:I like how you're also saying it's not. The salary was good, the punctuality of it is more important, exactly.
Speaker 2:Because none of the club asked me. I might be right, but I'm sure you know more than more than me, the Indian boys and the Indian football. No club I don't know, but the club that I've been, none of them was on time.
Speaker 2:The salary, yeah none of them, I don't know about the other thing, because I didn't play for Bangalore, I don't know, but the team I've been like none of them was on time and I was asking other boys. They said like how about you? I was like no, my one is the same my one is the same.
Speaker 3:So since ISL, for example, happened, did that sort of change? Because you've also experienced this whole ISL environment, where they've gotten players from all over, so they would have been forced to be more professional then no.
Speaker 2:The Super League. The Super League the way they launched it. It was, I think, one of the biggest year of my career.
Speaker 1:I can say which club were you at for the first year?
Speaker 2:FC Goa, for the first year of the Super League For the first year, yeah, and for me it was the most I can say, the best year of my career. I got the opportunity to play under Zico and then a lot of top players and I played against the legendary Brazilian Zico.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, he was obviously a coach at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. And then for me it was that time that it was everything. For me, the year was good. I performed very good that year. I played very, very good and I got retended to to even play for the next year, but I got injured who's?
Speaker 1:the hardest player you've played against the most difficult opponent you ever had, national team or club oh, national team and club, so national team.
Speaker 2:I can say Del Piero, oh sorry, club Del Piero, oh sorry club Del Piero, that I play against Delhi, against Goan Delhi. I was with him.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow what a quality Right, oh my God, unbelievable. I never, ever, like that time. You know, when you see somebody play for such a high level and World Cup and Champions League and everything, and then you see your level, that time you have to be always ready. You have to be always on your toes. You have to be always ready. If something happens, you have to be ready, and I was man to man with him.
Speaker 1:For 20 minutes. I'm going to check this, I'm going to Google it whilst you're chatting. I'm sure was it Del Piero that was injured for almost the entire first Super League season. He played something like 20 or 40 minutes in the entire first season Was it. Del Piero, or was it Trezeguet?
Speaker 2:No, that is somebody else. I'm going to check there was someone.
Speaker 1:There was a player, that famous player, that played 20 minutes because they were injured for the rest of the time. Carry on I'm going to Google it.
Speaker 3:So you know what, now that you've said that you know, 11 years in india, you've had a great experience, you've built all of these personal bonds. So then when you go back and you have to play a match against india because you've done it a couple of times- lots of times yeah, uh. So how? How was that? Like when you you just kind of play against your teammates who you would have been your teammates in some other match. You know, how is that feeling for you?
Speaker 2:you know, always, like I don't know, uh, when you play in the league and then you know a lot of boys and you know the league and you know how they play in and out every weekend and all that stuff, it was kind of motivation to go and play and beat them and then the next and go back to the club and it's like, oh, what's happening? You know so because between us we always have these things, you know, but always to play against India, it was, you know, motivation, to be honest do you look forward to those games?
Speaker 2:against India always, always, because you've had some great battles against Sunil. Chetri in particular and the Indian team. Yeah, always, I think we need to get on to it.
Speaker 3:Is it time? Yes, it's the time. It's the time.
Speaker 1:There's an elephant in the room. There's an elephant in the room.
Speaker 3:We've been beating around the bush for far too long.
Speaker 1:Shruti's going to go stand behind the curtains and cry, so you take the lead, Shruti.
Speaker 3:This year.
Speaker 1:What happened?
Speaker 3:I mean congratulations to you guys. You all did extremely well, despite all the odds against you and despite everything that's happening. You all performed brilliantly. But what happened? I want to ask it with more enthusiasm, but I'm going to ask it like this what happened? We beat India. That happened.
Speaker 1:First of all, let's bring Ashley Westwood back into the, into the conversation. Just tell us about Ashley Westwood and his involvement with the Afghan national team as their coach one of the best what is? What is he?
Speaker 2:what has he done to Afghanistan that has made him unique in your opinion for coaches of the national team, what he done for Afghanistan national team that in 20 years of the national team nobody done it yet is professionalism, fighting spirit, togetherness, and the boys never, never tell. Now, in 20 years of my career, none of the boys like, of course, of course, in the team few boys is there that they can play for the country and they play for the coach, but not all of them, and he is the one that every single one in the team play for him. Did he not have?
Speaker 1:a mutiny at the beginning of his tenure as Afghanistan coach, was there not a bunch of players who said I'm not playing for him? Or was there not a dispute just before he took over? Or was it when he took over, when?
Speaker 2:he took over we didn't have a national team, because before he took over we had a coach from I don't know, like Qatar, kuwait or someone. That crazy guy. No, seriously, because first he didn't invite the top and senior boys, including me, didn't invite. He took all the boys from Afghanistan.
Speaker 2:He said he wanted to beat with the kids all this top team, but then realized that he cannot do, and then he he kind of bring all these other boys, so he basically banned them exactly yeah and they had a game against Mongolia two games, home and away and there when they beat, I think they beat Mongolia at home, and then they went to Mongolia to play against Mongolia, and then what happened is all the boys come together and kick him out of the stadium.
Speaker 1:And he was not on the bench.
Speaker 2:He was not on the bench against Mong, not in the bench against against Mongolia. The second game, an important game. If we lose that, when we are not going to qualify for the qualifying round of the World Cup and FC, if we win, then yes, we are here and somehow some boys took over the because I was not here. This is what I seen the story like. I heard the story. So you were not one of the mutineers. No, no, I was not. I was not. And then the beat mongolia, the qualify and then, I think the same night, all 21 of them, they're writing in social media that we have a demand, you're not going to play. We have the federation have to do this for us, do this. You know, always when you demand, I think better you should sit at the table in private, exactly, yeah fix it and then you see how it is.
Speaker 2:You cannot just put in social media. In my point of view, I don't know, maybe the time was different. I don't know how it worked for them and I was not there what happened, I don't know even so. So then Ashley comes in, so then they approach me. If I can bring the boys come back together, if we can fix this, you say they.
Speaker 1:That's the.
Speaker 2:Afghan Federation government and everybody, all of them, yes. And then we have to bring some coach because we are going to have a game in like in a month, not a month, 25 days after that game. So they had few coaches on their mind and I say, listen, guys, if you want to fix this mess, he is the only one can fix it. I think for me. Still, I say, and I will always say, that the only person can fix a team, or to just from scratch or like a mess team that I can say, is Ashley.
Speaker 3:So had you worked with him before? No, never. So how did you know this guy? I?
Speaker 2:always heard good things about him, because a lot of boys in Bangalore later on they become my teammates and always they're talking good things about him Always. And I was like wow, wow. And then that time I messaged him. Actually I said you're free? Like yeah, I think before that, I think few months back, we were just talking about a few things, but we never meet, we never had any conversation, we never had any anything. And then I say you, you, what do you think you want to come? Like yeah, I will come, but what do you think like you want to come? He's like yeah, I will come, but what do you think? I was like this is a mess, we have to fix it. You know so, hours and hours and hours every day me, him and the GS of the Federation and the president. We were just talking, you know fast.
Speaker 3:Did it take a lot of convincing from your side to, you know, convince him to come in?
Speaker 2:No, actually he's somebody that loves to take challenges, and I love about him.
Speaker 1:It might end up watching this. I think Ashley's got a screw missing, but I can say that I've spent a bit of time with Ashley. We did some I can't remember whether it was the Euros or some World Cup shows together and obviously you know, just in the same circle, saw him at the Asian Cup actually with you in January.
Speaker 1:So I know Ashley reasonably well and he is quite a character, but you're correct in pointing out that he's one of those characters. I have this term called NFG right, and it means no fucks given, and there's very few people I come across in my world. I have this term called NFG right, and it means no fucks given, exactly, and there's very few people I come across in my world who are genuine.
Speaker 3:no fucks given Like Roy Keane is a no fucks given.
Speaker 1:If they kicked him off that TV show tomorrow, he wouldn't care. I've got millions in the bank. Don't give a fuck. I'm not trying to build a TV career Like I've had my career. Budgie is another one.
Speaker 1:You know, you know, budgie the goalkeeper, no fucks given, doesn't care less about anything. Ashley is one of those. Yeah, and he's one of those. That's why he doesn't care who he offends, and I think that's actually and you might agree with me on this, and I'm sure if Ashley's watching this, if he was honest, he'll agree that's maybe why he hasn't had that many coaching roles in India after Bengaluru, because he will break eggs. But sometimes that's what you need to fix a mess. You need to piss people off, you need to break eggs, you need to fix the situation without being all gently, nicey-nicey. You know, you're trying to win, you're trying to win, correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course I think for for his character, like we need somebody like this in Arkansas and he's, I think for me, like when I approach him, I I thought he's good, but I never thought like that, how, how good he is, you know, like I think give an example.
Speaker 2:I'm the only one like always in touch from seven months. We are talking every day like a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, like good, I can say, like in every way. Like the way he train the boys, the way mentality train the boys, the way he set up a training, the way he fight for the boys, like every single things, even like a bottle of water, like food, like hotel and everything. So you want everything the best for the boys. What did?
Speaker 1:he do that. You saw then your opinion that made you so successful over those two legs, one in saudi arabia and one in guawati. Wasn't it the second Guawati? So what did he do that made you successful in Saudi Arabia?
Speaker 2:I think, and his thinking is like I think one year ahead of everybody else, always one year ahead, one step ahead yeah one step. I can say an example, that when we play against India at home. After that it was a long journey back to to guati and everybody know it, and in the why is that?
Speaker 3:why do you say that?
Speaker 2:the journey is means that it it a lot of connection oh it takes, you can't go.
Speaker 1:You can't go direct you cannot go direct you have to go via riyadh Dubai.
Speaker 2:Delhi or something.
Speaker 1:Did Ashley choose Abba as the location?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Right, okay.
Speaker 2:No, because.
Speaker 1:Abba is a town city right in the bottom corner of Saudi Arabia. So you couldn't get any further, so sorry to interrupt you. So you couldn't get any further, so sorry to interrupt you. Afghanistan were playing their home games in Saudi Arabia as part of a deal with the Saudi Football Federation. They were acting as hosts. Saudis All of Afghans' home games are played in Saudi. Sorry that's an aside. Coming back to this, yeah.
Speaker 2:so, ashley, think about everything ahead of everything. Everybody else and he knew it that if we play against India and we finish the game 10 o'clock, no one going to sleep till morning after the game, and if we sleep, for example, like in the morning, and then we have a long journey to Guati and the recovery time is like so less so we work, and me, him and his assistant is like so less so we work, and me, him and his assistant we work for to find the best possible flight to reach India as soon as possible before India.
Speaker 1:so you didn't go to bed.
Speaker 2:That night we finished the game. But before we go to the stadium, all the back, everything was packed in the lobby. We come back, shower everything in the stadium. We come to hotel. We had back, shower everything in the stadium. We come to hotel. We had a good food. Take the back, gone to the airport, take the next flight to the area, to Abu, dhabi, abu Dhabi to Bangalore, and we reach in Bangalore. And we reach. India team was already sleeping in the hotel in Aba. So we go to the Bangalore walking distance to touch sleep at night there Next morning good recovery, eat, good food. Take the next flight. We were fresh when we reached Guwahati. When we reached, we entered the hotel. India team was entering the hotel. They were dead. You can see from the face they were dead.
Speaker 3:Oh my God. It shows how important all of this is right.
Speaker 2:Exactly that 24-hour recovery session before India was the difference. That small thing. Nobody even thought of that.
Speaker 1:There's a couple of elements to this story which I think we also need to highlight. One I'm going to get you to tell. The other is prior to the Afghan game, both legs, there was an announcement made by the AIFF that they had arranged charter flights for the Indian team. Now, most teams in the world national teams and club teams, especially the big club teams, use charter flights to get around.
Speaker 3:I don't remember seeing any charter flights when I was with Newcastle United.
Speaker 1:We flew to all Champions League games, all away games, by charter flight, so all the teams on the flight. Now, the thing about a charter flight is you're not on a schedule with an airline, so you can go direct. You can find whatever the nearest runway or airport is and just go direct. It makes life very easy. So apparently they'd done this deal and, uh, it was announced, tentatively announced, and then the deal fell apart. Exactly now you're going to pick up the story here because you didn't just pack your bags, did you?
Speaker 1:ashley was very specific about what you put in your bag because, a team travels, not just with, you know, a wheelie carry-on they travel with kits, they call them. Uh, what do they call, not bins?
Speaker 2:um, equipment, all this, like so. So what happened is, like he said, because we had a like that was a risky flight to take it, to be honest, like nobody even thought and nobody gonna take that, because we had a very short period of connection in Abu. Dhabi.
Speaker 1:So if you miss that connection.
Speaker 2:If you miss, we are gone, we are gone, we are gone. So he said that in backpack, both shoes, one training jersey, two game jersey and the kit, man, if you will, and that also I don't care, but all the boys have to take this one and we, so we prepared that way that all the the seat we already reserved the first row, we finish and we are running in the airport. I'm not kidding, we are running the last call we reach on the gate. It was last call when we reach to the gate this is in Aba.
Speaker 1:Oh no, this is in Abu Dhabi. No in Abu.
Speaker 2:Dhabi and we were running, running, running, running. He is first and we are running behind him. Ashley was first. Last call. It was last call. That's where we reached to the gate. It was last call.
Speaker 3:But it all paid off.
Speaker 2:Right, we made it, we made it All the kids, we made it the all the kid. Everything was transferred and then we reach. Once we reach and touch in bangalore we were like okay, it's so strange that was the game changing the man changing decision.
Speaker 3:It's not what actually happened on the day, like what happened before, had such an important exactly a lot of things like I think not.
Speaker 2:Nobody think about all this small small details and eating always ahead of everything. Like he is somebody that that is minus all over the place. You know he thinks about all the positivity. You know like he thinks about that if we do this, I think it's good, it's good, this is good, and then, at the end of the day, he's taking decisions. You know.
Speaker 1:I think there's something worth pointing out to those who are watching Again. When I was working under Sir Bobby Robson when you finish the game late at night, you're buzzing, aren't you?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Your energy's up, your adrenaline's flowing. You cannot go straight back to the hotel and fall asleep. It's impossible, impossible. So you're awake till 1, 2, 3 am anyway, aren't you In the?
Speaker 3:night.
Speaker 2:Like more than that yeah more.
Speaker 1:So Bobby Robson, god bless him he used to always, when we came back from Champions League, would leave after the game. He wouldn't keep them another night. We'd just get on the plane charter flight and then fly back to Newcastle, and then there would be no training. The next morning We'd train maybe at 6 o'clock at night, or something the next day.
Speaker 1:Because he knew the players. There was no point in staying in Europe for one more night when the players are awake all night. They would just start to fall asleep at 5 am, 6 am, and then they've got to go to the airport at 9 am.
Speaker 2:So it killed them.
Speaker 1:It absolutely killed them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why. And then when we come to your point that it was very difficult for a coach that to put his reputation under the line and then come and take a team that he know that it's gonna be, it's not gonna be easy, yeah, and we didn't have the team and he know it. That now what we have to do, you know, when we we had an opportunity for the first time when we go to afghanistan with him, his wife also come to me. This is a funny story, his wife's like it should be.
Speaker 3:It should be one of our drinking games every time he has a funny story like I don't know what you did to him.
Speaker 2:He's like three o'clock at night. He's like, okay, I'm going to afghanistan. Like no, you cannot go to afghanistan because you have a life insurance. You cannot go because it's going to be that it's dangerous that's the place that you cannot go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like I don't give a fuck about life insurance life insurance doesn't work in afghanistan no, for him it's like no, yeah so he, we end up in afghanistan and sorry for those of you who've never met ashley or never seen ashley, I'm sure you might go and Google him. Ashley, actually looks like a British parachute regiment military. He's got the tattoos, hasn't he? And he's got that haircut, so he actually looks like a soldier.
Speaker 3:So if he goes to.
Speaker 1:Afghanistan, with his haircut and his tattoos he looks exactly like a British soldier or American soldier, so it's even more dangerous for Ashley so anyway so you're celebrating. You're celebrating the victories over India. What happened after that?
Speaker 2:No, before that, how we take over. We were just talking about that, how we take over to Afghanistan. We went to Afghanistan and you see the team and you were in shock, the first team when you were going to play against Qatar and Kuwait I will come back to India game, how we did, you know. But he seen the team, he's like wow, no, no way, it's crazy. But he still, he's like ok, no problem so me.
Speaker 1:So this is the team without all of the the experienced guys, because they are boycotting.
Speaker 2:They're in a fight with the federation and he just took, I think, 25 local boys from Afghanistan. We gone to Qatar me and him before, but their visa didn't arrive, their ticket didn't arrive, nothing arrived. So they arrived in the game one day before the game. They come to Qatar one day before the game. They come to Qatar one day before the game and he doesn't know anybody's name. We didn't know. I, like, personally, don't know who's playing which position like we don't know.
Speaker 2:He's asking where he plays. I don't know where he plays, I don't know. So somehow we put a team together and I couldn't play because I was suspended previously with two yellow cards, and he was like man. I cannot believe it. What should I do? We lost 8-1. But 8-0 to him From the pitch line. He didn't even one-time move or do anything. He was standing 19 minutes there. He was there. And then we see this passion and everything. And then the same thing against Kuwait. We lost 4-0. But that was a game-changing period that once he said I think it's not going to be enough. We need to bring now the boys, the boys that wanted to play for the team. And we were just looking, I don't know like all night. He from Australia, I was sitting in Canada, his assistant is in Thailand, all three of us looking around the world, all Afghani boys. Who was playing?
Speaker 1:professionally.
Speaker 2:This is not necessarily players who were born in Afghanistan, but they have Afghanistan parents parents, anybody and like we know that after two, two months we have an important game against India and he wanted a good team. He doesn't want to lose against India. Either me I don't want to lose.
Speaker 3:It was personal as well, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:We go to Australia, we scout some boys there and then we call that boys, we convince a few of them and all that stuff. And when they meet and they see him and finally they realize that okay. And we had a lot of training camps. We call a lot of boys, they are not good enough, you send it back. Then again, like a lot of you know hard work, before the india game we had three, three weeks camp. It was a crazy three weeks camp in ava because nothing is there, just training, training, training, training, training. And we had a lot, I don't know 40, 45 boys around the world just come for trial with different levels of fitness and different type of level.
Speaker 2:The way that they want you to play, you know, and you know actually the way you want to is, like, different, because he want his player. That's why, like before the india game, we somehow we managed to build a team like a proper team.
Speaker 2:It's not the team that we had before, but he built this team in very short period of time, like, I can say, three weeks in three weeks, in three weeks, the way he built the team and then we gone there and we we beat india aware, we're all aware, wow wow it was, it was big and for that's why, like that's why I was telling you, I will tell you this that when the boys realized it that time, that okay, if he can do for us this, we can do anything for him gave them confidence exactly. So, india, they put us in the same hotel India team and Afghanistan team.
Speaker 2:Really, I think, normally it was not allowed, you know, to put both teams both. Sorry, this is in Aba or in Guwahati? No, in Aba they had a different team we had a team in.
Speaker 2:Guwahati In Guwahati. Yeah, you have to do it, you know. And that time some election was going on and all that stuff and ashley was like, of course he was pissed but he said like, okay, now I can, I can, I can be fine, it's fine. So they had, we had a like I don't know like restaurant on the side corner, like dark. It was like this room that you can just go and eat and then go out, but not in the main restaurant. But the funny part was that india staff was eating on the main restaurant but the boys was eating on that. And then one day in the morning we we gone to to breakfast and in breakfast table nothing was there. Because when you are in the main restaurant, everything, everything is ready. Go eat and just go, you know.
Speaker 2:Like a breakfast buffet Like exactly we went to there, it was so bad and the boys was, you know, cannot go talk with Ashley, and the boys told me and I go tell them and he didn't realize it before. But you see, like what he said, follow me. He was first, everybody is behind him Again. We were walking.
Speaker 3:He was first, everybody is behind him again we're walking in the lobby, enter in the restaurant. He said like, sit and eat. It sounds like the duck and the ducklings yeah the manager.
Speaker 2:Manager is like no, no, no, like like, shut up, you're not gonna talk, go out, go eat. So everybody went inside. We eat, everybody's eating good food after three days because we're always going on the site. Even india team was on the site. I don't know what they were serving for them, I don't know, but for us the food was not that good. You know how you're getting in main restaurant like pasta and everything you know. So the boys was eating happy. And then the boys see that he is fighting for us and the manager, everybody was quite. He said like my boy's gonna eat here breakfast, lunch, dinner, we're not gonna go there, everybody's gonna eat here. I don't so like all that stuff. And he managed. That's why I say like he fights for every single thing. If you see that the boys is not good, he's not happy with the small things, he fights for you yeah if I.
Speaker 2:that's why the boys realize, that's why we see like and then that was what? Like small, small things, build and build and build.
Speaker 3:It also shows that football, like it's definitely a physical game but it's also such a strong mental game, right, like that part of it, like from exactly everything you're saying, like if he managed to build a team in three, in three weeks, if the whole you know, the whole hotel situation running through Abu Dhabi airport and all of that played such an important role in giving you the rest and all of that. Like that whole, he tackled that part of it, the mental part of it, you know, and then the physical came along with it. So what happened on the day then of the match when you beat us?
Speaker 2:you know we were losing in half time. I remember it was a stupid of me that I gave a penalty.
Speaker 2:He soon nearly scored one zero we came in, uh, in dressing room, we thought that. We thought we thought that I think your crocodile arms. But it got. But yeah, it got like this, but even like if I was not touching he was gonna score. But like I had a chance because I know that we had Sunil put. So I told the keepers go there. I actually told them go there, but you know, but okay, so we're in.
Speaker 2:In half time we thought that, oh my god, he's gonna kill us. But he didn't say nothing. He said listen guys. But he didn't say nothing. He said listen guys, just go enjoy. I know that you guys are going to beat. You guys are better than them. Because he believed in us. You know the way we trained, the way we did. And he was so relaxed he said just go, just go enjoy guys, just go and play. I know you guys are going to beat, trust me, you guys are going to beat. And his philosophy, the way he put the team, the way he want to, you know he is so how do you say Analytical Kind of that and stubborn kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I said like I wanted this, it will work, and the boys was on the starting little bit shy because the way he play and we were like I don't know if it work, so there was doubt there was doubt little bit, you know little bit on the starting. I'm talking on the start at the beginning, yeah, yeah, but slowly, slowly, you know that trust and everything come together and we see and then we're like, wow, you know, this is one of the best you know, like we're so comfortable with the ball without the ball, the fighting spirit and the fitness level and everything. So that's why we gone beat easy.
Speaker 1:It was, I think, one of Would you say that's the greatest moment of yours with the national team?
Speaker 2:Yeah, to beat India in India, because we never beat India in India. So what was the?
Speaker 1:reaction back home oh my God crazy People was on the street.
Speaker 2:Everybody was celebrating. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Firing their guns in the air.
Speaker 2:It was crazy. It was an unbelievable experience for the boys that were first time in the national team Because they never seen that kind of game in the Afghanistan, because it's always intense, and then the game that actually come back to india for the first time.
Speaker 3:You know, you wanted to what was the story y'all was saving for before?
Speaker 1:is now the time, oh um yes, so obviously in afghanistan everyone's celebrating. I'm guessing your phone went hot, did it with messages after the game and congratulations and everything? Did you go back to Afghanistan after the game, like day after two days, after a week after Did you go back?
Speaker 2:We went to the game. After that, mia and Ashley went to, because Ashley went, ashley also went. Yeah, wow, mia and Ashley went to, I think after it took over. I think we went to two times.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, how was it? What was your reception?
Speaker 2:It was a good experience, unbelievable. They love.
Speaker 1:Ashley. So, in particular, tell us how it was after the victory against India.
Speaker 2:going back to Kabul, it's a crazy experience because people like you know how it is. One game you win people getting crazy. You know like people respect you so much.
Speaker 1:Did you feel it at the airport landing in Kabul? Did you immediately as you got off the plane.
Speaker 2:You know we always this VVIP treatment. We never go to checking and all that. So we come out on the side, put on the car from VVIP out without even like a sound like out, like the president. Yeah, just when we come back again. It's the same thing, you know.
Speaker 1:Did you have a police escort?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have, we have always Really. Yeah, this is crazy Even the security on the side.
Speaker 1:So did you get asked to go and meet the head of the country? I mean, it's not the president anymore, is it? But what's?
Speaker 2:the name of the country, I mean it's not the president anymore, is it? But what's the name of the? I don't even know. But yeah, we have like people from them that we meet talk.
Speaker 3:From them as in like the Taliban. Yeah, you met the Taliban after your game. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:They don't run the country.
Speaker 2:I think they are like very supportive to be honest, well they're, they're football fans yeah, they are. They are football fans, they are supportive.
Speaker 2:They're, oh my god, they're so happy, I'm not kidding, they're happy when they win yeah yeah, they were like talking like wow, wow, this is crazy because you know, like always the game against India is like tough. You know, I don't know how it worked there between them, but I don't know. But in Afghanistan, if you ask any Afghani around the world, you say like which game you looking forward to always have, it's always India against Afghanistan, football tell us about Ashley.
Speaker 1:I mean, what was Ashley's experience of going to Kabul? Because that was you said it was his second time in Kabul, so obviously he's gone there as the winning coach. Yeah, yeah, of course. So he must be like did they give him a freedom of Kabul?
Speaker 2:or freedom of the country. They gave this, you know, like a lot of things, a lot, a lot of things, a black, black turban, and then they have like a lot yeah, yeah, and he was with the short and they gave him this big piece because we were like. I always laugh with him and they're like what is this?
Speaker 1:you cannot wear short because come on, tell us what it was like for him, because obviously you went to the palace I'm guessing, yeah to meet them no, we meet like we have a place.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you went with Ashley. So what was it? What was Ashley's reaction when you went? Obviously you went with him?
Speaker 3:No, I think he doesn't care to me he's somebody. He didn't care, was he not like a little cautious, worried, no, no, he's never.
Speaker 2:If he wanted, for sure he was not going to come.
Speaker 1:That's why I say he's the one that you can take anywhere. You go with us. He doesn't care If you are the coach of the Afghan national team. That's just beaten your arch enemy, india. You can walk anywhere in.
Speaker 2:Afghanistan. Yeah, you can. Actually we were just walking on the street, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, Brilliant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I remember one day in the morning at 6 o'clock he was with the shorts, he was wearing shorts. Yeah, man, I'm going to run in the street. I said, no, you cannot go in the shorts, you cannot go. Let's go to the stadium and run. You cannot do it. I don't know, of course it's safe, but for him it's like he can just go Because he's the most disciplined person I've seen in my life. Five o'clock in the morning he's in the In terms of fitness.
Speaker 2:Fitness and discipline. He's the one that you go in the morning run, come back, go to the gym, come back ready before all the boys are ready. He's already trained and everything and ready for breakfast.
Speaker 1:Sorry to interrupt you. So what did I want to know? I want to be in that room, amiri. What did the leaders of Afghanistan say to Ashley? You know, obviously, congratulations. But what did they say to?
Speaker 2:her, because you must have been translator correct. Yeah, whatever you say, we can do. Whatever you ask, we can do Really yeah, but don't yeah but I'll talk.
Speaker 1:Tell me the bit about leaving because you were delayed, when you don't name the airline, but tell me what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were delayed. To be honest, like actually, and he is like on the way telling me So- you're meeting the, you've met the lead, or you're with the leaders.
Speaker 1:You've got a flight to catch.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then he's like let's go, let's go, let's go. It's like we're in the table, like this, like you can't reject the guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah and okay, somehow we finish. You go to the hotel park and like it was already late, like it was late, impossible, you know to, to take this flight, and that flight was from outside, not from afghanistan a schedule?
Speaker 1:this is a schedule.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then he is telling me like made no chance, no chance, I'm going to catch this flight. No chance. I was like I don't know because I also gave up. I thought like okay, when we reach there, they said so you're getting on the flight as well. No, I was going after one day after that. But I this flight, but it was impossible. You know, we never thought that they're gonna wait for us they actually they actually stopped their flight for us no wow this is some next level celebrity treatment so they held the plane on the tarmac until Ashley had arrived
Speaker 3:late do you? Know, what like. After hearing all of this, I honestly don't feel as bad now about India's loss. It seems like a well-deserved win. We saw what happened on the day of the match. It was really. It was very bitter for us. I won't even say bittersweet, but now that I know your side of the story, you know what All I can do is. You know like. It's a very inspirational story to say the least.
Speaker 3:And then again, as always, Roy is showing me the timer, which is why, unfortunately, we need to bring this conversation to an end. What a shame.
Speaker 1:Can I ask one more question, of course? Where would you hope to see Afghanistan football in 10 years time, or even five years time? Is the future bright is it? Is there hope, do you see? Sorry, it's a whole bunch of questions in one. Do you see a lot more young Amiri's in when you go back to Afghanistan now, when there was very few who envisaged a future as a professional, professional football player?
Speaker 2:I hope so, I hope so. I think that we always like, if you ask me our country, we always grow and grow, and grow, because unfortunately we had a lot of issues and all that stuff, but now we got somebody that we can dream with him you know with ashley and it is something that we were so close.
Speaker 2:It was eight minutes, you know, against kuwait. If we are draw against kuwait, we are already qualified for asian cup for the first time. We never come that close, you know, with with him. Of course we can, we can, we can dream, you know, with him if he is there. Uh, it was, it is, it's possible, and it is going to be a lot of boys that experiencing this kind of treatment that it never happened kind of treatment. It's a professionalism, I can say, the way you bring that set up that no previous coach ever brought to the national team, from GPS to training, to the facility, everything. So, yeah, why not?
Speaker 3:I must say this we've from GPS to training, to the facility, everything. So yeah, why not? I must say this We've had a few Indian team football players come here and have these conversations and we've spoken about coaches, but nobody has spoken about their coach with such high regard, with so much adoration that it's making all of us collectively respect him so much. So you know it's coming through. It's very palpable how you feel about Ashley Westwood.
Speaker 1:Are you retired, by the way? Let's clear that up.
Speaker 2:Are you retired Not?
Speaker 1:yet no right, okay. Because I did see that you'd retired and then I saw you playing in the next game Because we didn't have anybody.
Speaker 2:So I have to play how old are you, I'm 34.
Speaker 1:How can you retire at 34? How?
Speaker 2:old are you? I'm 34. How can you retire at 34? I thought it was a big, big game. I can just start my career and finish my career, and that was a very good moment, sunil.
Speaker 1:Chetri has just hit 40 and he's retired. Well, he retired officially at 39 and he's still playing club football.
Speaker 2:You've got to go to 40. I think I can just go. Yeah, my body is good, I'm feeling good.
Speaker 1:I sincerely body is good. I hope I'm feeling good. Yeah, I sincerely hope you do. I really. You know we've had a good laugh today and I've enjoyed the conversation, but I must say, um, I think, as an inspiration for afghanistan and afghanistan football, I think you're a fabulous flag carrier for the country, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, jay. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you and thank you for sharing all your funny stories and thank you for dressing up so well, nobody ever dresses up this well for our show they're Dior pyjamas though.
Speaker 2:Hello Dior pyjamas no but I didn't expect that it's like this I dress up or something. No, we need people to dress up better for our shows. This is great.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that alright see you next time on chai football this episode was recorded at w4 podcast studio by shiroi demonte, who um paints his fingernails, and put together by executive producer ian carlos, who has a bit of a middle-aged spread. Let's call it a muffin top. It's a good job that. They're great at what they do w W4 Podcasts. Check them out. If you'd like to contact us, head over to our Chai Football Instagram account and send us a DM, or, alternatively, hit me up on Twitter at Joe Footy, that is, at J-O-E-F-O-O-T-Y. We love hearing from you and we will be every week picking out the best of your questions and comments. If you're based in Dubai and would like to record your own podcast or have a professional podcast team assist you in producing branded content for your business, then head over to wwww4podcaststudiocom and get in touch with the team.